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Old 28-11-2012, 05:25 AM   #1
AnIdealist
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Frown Issues re: Paperless Ticketing

I'd like to express some issues I have with Paperless ticketing and suspect there are others out there who feel the same way.

While I believe Muse is using this method to prevent scalping, many people end up needing to sell their tickets for legitimate non-scalping reasons. For example, I just saw McCartney in Vancouver on Sunday and a young fellow couldn't make the concert so sold me his ticket for cost through Craigslist. It was a total win-win situation and I can't see what's the matter with that.

Back to Muse. While I'm from Vancouver, I can't attend the concert here on Feb 06 because I'm going to be on a business trip in Alberta that week. Yet, I changed my flight out to Edmonton so I can attend the Feb 03 concert there.

When looking for tickets on Ticketmaster though back on Oct 16, there weren't any very good single ticket options available and, knowing Craigslist wouldn't be an option and being nervous that I wouldn't be able to get a ticket at all due to this, I bought a VIP Ticket Package for $219.51 in section 120, row 3.

Later on that day though, there were now much better single ticket options available and I bought one in section 120, row 12 for $80.31. When I did this, I thought I could sell my VIP Ticket Package on TicketMaster's TicketExchange but I then noticed the fine print saying I couldn't do this with these kinds of tickets.

So now I am stuck with a $220 ticket that is only slightly better than my $80 one and I can't sell sell the $220 one.

Before anybody says that this is all my own fault, I will say that there is no way in the world I would have bough that VIP Ticket Package if I knew that I had the normal Craigslist options available to me in the first place.

While I believe Muse has good intentions with their Paperless Policy, really, it's just a fairly large inconvenience for many people.

Another area of inconvenience: It is often preferable to be able to distribute tickets to the people in your group (via mail or whatever) in advance and everybody can make their own way to the concert. Yet, with these Paperless ones, we all have to arrive holding hands.

Surely Muse doesn't want to inconvenience their loyal fans this way do they?

In my case, having been introduced to Muse by my kids, I'm such a big fan that I went to these lengths to see them in Edmonton but that $80 ticket is what I really wanted and I only got stuck with the $220 one because of circumstances surrounding the Paperless only situation.

Our of frustration, I had contacted Ticketmaster to see if I could cancel my $220 ticket and give me my money back but they couldn't. In fact, they seemed to think I was crazy for asking.
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Old 28-11-2012, 05:35 AM   #2
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More thoughts about Paperless Ticketing

I thought I'd add some further comments to my own post.

As I do a fair amount of business in Alberta and I loved Sunday's McCartney concert so much, I seriously thought I might try to arrange a meeting with a client in Edmonton later this week and attend the Nov 29 McCartney concert out there. It was a great concert.

So I've been checking Craigslist and there is a decent selection of tickets available where some are over priced but some are quite reasonably priced.

So, what's the matter with this?

Personally, I don't think we need "big brother" trying to control us and neither McCartney or Springsteen seem to think so either. Saw Springsteen last night I might add.
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Old 29-11-2012, 02:11 PM   #3
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I have the same concerns regarding e-tickets.

I bought tickets for the Stade de France shows on 21 and 22 june. it's quite possible that we do not find a babysitter for both nights. right now, there is no legal way to sell the ticketslegally (i did not find any information about a possibilty on ticketnet.fr).
I think the intention to reduce ticket scalping is good. But there should be a way to transfer a ticket to other persons on a legal way.

In addition, i think sending the tickets via e-mail is not really secure. it's like sending the tickets applied with glue to a postcard. i could have ordered paper ticket for additional costs of 15 . that's another kind of scalping. (even the tickets could be personalized too)

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Old 29-11-2012, 06:50 PM   #4
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Sounds like you have an issue with the VIP tickets more than anything else.

Muse's presale pretty much did punk the North American fans, in terms of VIP/seating. Ticketmaster still right now has far better Detroit seats (which are VIP) than the VIP tickets that pulled up during the special presale. And it's probably just a matter of time until they get knocked down to standard price, because there's not nearly as much of a demand for that kind of thing as was presumed.
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Old 30-11-2012, 08:33 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halo eighteen View Post
Sounds like you have an issue with the VIP tickets more than anything else.

Muse's presale pretty much did punk the North American fans, in terms of VIP/seating. Ticketmaster still right now has far better Detroit seats (which are VIP) than the VIP tickets that pulled up during the special presale. And it's probably just a matter of time until they get knocked down to standard price, because there's not nearly as much of a demand for that kind of thing as was presumed.
Thanks for that feedback but my issue with VIP tickets is secondary to my main issue which is that I believe regular hard copy tickets should be an option period and, in my opinion, going paperless causes more problems than it fixes.

If hard copy tickets had been available for the concert I'm attending, I then for sure would not have bought the VIP ticket.

It's kind of adding insult to injury though to (1) make it so I can sell the VIP ticket on my own and (2) make it so I can't sell it on TicketExchange either.

So, in that way, yes I do have a pretty big issue with the VIP ticket.

If I could sell it on TicketExchange, maybe I'd offer it up for a price like $150 or something what with there being better single $80 tickets available now 1.5 months after the night I bought the VIP one.

Without that option, even if I could sell somebody on taking it off my hands for whatever I could get for it, they'd have to be nervous that my flight would get delayed because myself and my ID and my credit card would be needed to get that person in the door.

I guess I'll have to rack it up to "live and learn" but it's never fun learning these lessens the hard way. I had no reason to think I couldn't sell my VIP ticket on TicketExchange because I can't see any logic to why this option wouldn't be available (and I missed the fine print).

Also in the "live and learn" category is that I believe the reason better single tickets started showing up after I had sucked myself into buying the VIP ticket is that, as groups of 2 and larger tickets are sold off, oddball singles will then start showing up.
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Old 16-12-2012, 12:29 AM   #6
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Mad

What really adds insult to injury here is that there are several dealers who are selling hard copy tickets to the Muse concert in Edmonton.

So clearly some people are able to buy hard copy tickets and it only seems to be dealers.

I haven't seen a single ticket on sale on Craigslist by Owner.

If I'd known that dealers were going to be able to sell hard copy tickets, I certainly would have held off and bought mine from one of them rather than getting sucked in the way I did.

Dealers can sell tickets like this but I have no reasonable option to attempt to see off my VIP ticket.

Really, what is the noble point of principle here?
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Old 20-12-2012, 07:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnIdealist View Post
What really adds insult to injury here is that there are several dealers who are selling hard copy tickets to the Muse concert in Edmonton.

So clearly some people are able to buy hard copy tickets and it only seems to be dealers.

I haven't seen a single ticket on sale on Craigslist by Owner.

If I'd known that dealers were going to be able to sell hard copy tickets, I certainly would have held off and bought mine from one of them rather than getting sucked in the way I did.

Dealers can sell tickets like this but I have no reasonable option to attempt to see off my VIP ticket.

Really, what is the noble point of principle here?
Certain sections of the Edmonton gig (ie. all of the floor, most of the 100's and the 200s next to stage) were paperless. The rest were good 'ole fashioned paper tickets...
If you see someone selling a paper ticket for GA, they are lying, because NOBODY got a hard copy ticket for the floor. Period.
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Old 21-12-2012, 12:28 AM   #8
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Thanks for that feedback kaitie<3.

Now I understand what's going on here (ie. why there are hard copy tickets).

Surprising then that, although I've been checking every week or so, I haven't seen a single ticket for sale by owner on Craigslist (I just did so again now and the only entry showing up is a dealer). I've never seen that before for any event so maybe I'm not such an idiot for having shelled our $220 for a VIP ticket.

Not that it would do me any good to buy a lesser priced hard copy ticket unless I could unload my VIP ticket.

Considering I paid $275 (which was less than TicketMaster cost) for a ticket 16 rows from the stage for the McCartney at BC Place (which I bought through Craigslist), I'm not totally grossed out about having paid $220 for my VIP ticket to Muse in Rexall.

Yet, I'm nervous that if my plane into Edmonton, which arrives at 4pm on the day of the concert is late or something, I won't have even been able to leave my hard copy ticket in safe keeping with an Edmonton friend so he could attend in my stead if I can't make it.

Plus, I don't know if I'll be able to get there in time to attend the VIP pre-show party.

I suppose my problems are pretty minor though and the solution here may be seeing if I can get an earlier flight to Edmonton that day (which will cost me some more money I'm sure for the flight change).

What a great band Muse is though so I'm sure it will all be worth it. I've forced myself to listen to the 2nd Law "album" a few times now and it's even growing on me.
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Old 16-01-2013, 08:20 AM   #9
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I share your concerns, recently my mom bought me tickets to 5-6 shows and well, her credit card was stolen, bank shredded it and I've called TicketMaster trying to assign the tickets to a newer credit card. There's also the issue of not being able to get into the venue without the card holder present.

I'm sure security will make an exception since I look fairly young and they were purchased by a parent sharing the same last name but I'm still worried about traveling 500 miles, booking hotels, waiting 10+ hours to get a barrier spot and some douchebag security guard either holding me up so I can explain the situation or not letting me in period.

Also I would just like to say paperless ticketing hasn't stopped a goddamn thing. Maybe inter-state sellers didn't get to buy and sell tickets at 4X their price but it's definitely working out for the sellers near/around the gigs.

Go look at Craigslist, some are even selling General Admission with the service of "guaranteeing you a barrier spot" for an additional charge. All these guys need to do is show up, have security scan their credit card and they've got their money and the service has been fulfilled.

I know management had good intentions but after reading what happened in Manchester to several Radiohead fans, I am definitely skeptical and unless TicketMaster actually calls me back in the next 72 hours, I'm fucked for the first gig and before someone recommends talking to the venue...

I called them, spoke to the operator who transferred me, someone picked up 15 minutes later and immediately disconnected me. Called several times throughout several days and it seems like they're refusing my calls.
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Old 16-01-2013, 08:47 AM   #10
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Thanks for that feedback Alexander. It sounds like your inconvenience over this issue is quite a bit worse than mine.

I may have mentioned this in a prior post but I'm seriously considering couriering my passport and credit card out to my Edmonton based friend because, while the plan is for him to pick me up at the airport a few hours before the show, if bad weather or whatever prevents me from being able to arrive on time, I'd prefer that my $300 investment here doesn't get wasted.

If things were "normal", I'd instead just mail him my hard copy tickets.

I'm also concerned about not even being able to take advantage of the VIP party due to long line-ups waiting to get paperless tickets processed (in theory anyways as this is my first time with these stupid kind of tickets).

I have to admit that my own ignorance got the best of me here in that it would have never occurred to me that only some of the tickets to the event were paperless while there was otherwise a large number of hard copy tickets. I really don't understand the logic of that, in the first place. I mean, couldn't people get ripped off with the 80% (or whatever) hard copy tickets that had been sold?

This may seem like an obtuse reference but, here in British Columbia, prior socialist governments tried to implement "rent controls" where landlords couldn't raise their prices beyond certain guidelines. While it was good intentioned, it ultimately did nothing but screw everything up. For example, developers had no incentive to build new buildings which resulted in a greater shortage in affordable rental units. Plus, people would hang onto their unrealistically low rent apartments and sublet them out to other people (for a profit), etc.

This seems similar in the sense that, while Muse may have had some idealistic reasons for what they are doing, they are ultimately just causing at least as many problems as they are solving - and, in my opinion, a lot more - and I wish they would get back to doing what they do best (creating great music) - and butt out of the "social engineering" game because they're not very good at it.

Really, I'll take good old supply and demand and free enterprise over this kind of crap any day of the week. Best of luck with your problem which sounds a lot worse than mine.
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Old 16-01-2013, 09:40 AM   #11
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Thank you, I will keep you guys updated since my gigs are much earlier than yours. Also the whole paperless and hard copy tickets is an entirely other issue. I don't understand why some of my tickets are paperless and some I just walk up to the door, show my receipt and they let me in. That is just absolutely ridiculous to me. I contacted the .mu presale site and they've said that I just need to go to the box office and collect my ticket. If so, why even bother with paperless?

It's not like scalpers don't know about these presales. Every band does this for their fans and any "professional" scalper that honestly makes a living off this is registered here and follows touring information so I just don't see the point. The only people that are truly getting screwed then are the people who casually resell their tickets and/or can't attend the event.

If Muse/Warner Management wants to do anything at all about the flawed system, they need to go after the BIG bad guys and there's been quite some speculation about TicketMaster selling tickets before general sale to other, professional resellers.
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Old 16-01-2013, 10:08 AM   #12
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The concert I'm attending is on February 3rd so, if yours is much earlier than mine, it must be in the very near future.

I'll share my "actual concert" experiences here as well in any event.

FYI, I've been "double whammed" so to speak because, when I originally bought the overpriced VIP ticket, I thought I could resell it on TicketMaster's TicketExchange but, for reaons I don't understand, they don't offer this service for VIP tickets like they do for regular tickets.

So, all normal options of "free enterprise" are ruled out for myself. Other than options like meeting the potential buyer at the appropriate spot before the concert and, after receiving my ticket, passing it over to them.

As a potential buyer, I'd be pretty nervous about this. Hence, all normal options of "free enterprise" are effectively ruled out.

Oh well, my "less than cost" 16 rows from the stage McCartney ticket was $270 so I guess I should be happy with my $220 "impossible to sell" Muse VIP ticket.

Having said that, McCartney was awesome as hopefully Muse will be too.
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