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Old 18-02-2018, 02:43 PM   #2041
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It has been growing on me, for sure.

I think what I appreciate the most is the way they blended the genres in a way that is very much theirs. Despite some of the most clear influences or incorporation of specific trends, the song as a whole has a very particular vibe/direction. And even if perhaps it lacks depth as a consequence of being evidently tailored to be a single, I actually think it's a really interesting choice given how much it would/will stand out in comparison to much of the stuff I hear on the radio.

I guess Dig Down felt awfully derivative to me. With Thought Contagion, despite fan reaction to the song's quality itself, it makes me think that the band are stil hungry to try out different things, expanding their range and throwing out there their interpretation of where music is at, in the present moment. These days I think that's what keeps me interested in Muse, and I'm glad they still have that.


I also appreciate the irony of a lot of people disliking the song but recognising how it got stuck in their heads :P
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Old 18-02-2018, 04:04 PM   #2042
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Originally Posted by Tuck Norris 85 View Post
As for the lyrics, who the fuck listens to Muse for the lyrics?
Does this mean one can't comment on how awful the lyrics are?
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Old 18-02-2018, 04:13 PM   #2043
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I donít get why itís so difficult to understand that bad lyrics that are in your face can be an issue no matter how little you care about lyrics in general. Actually Iím pretty sure Tuck Norris understands this, heís just pretending not to so his post seems more logical.
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Old 18-02-2018, 04:18 PM   #2044
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One of the songs I really like by The 1975 has a line ďyou look shit and you smell a bitĒ, and itís put me off the whole song even though I really like the rest of it. Thankfully none of Muse ones have done this yet
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Old 18-02-2018, 04:51 PM   #2045
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Matt might never have been Leonard Cohen in that department but a hell of a lot of my favourites from the first 4 records are up there because Iím attached to at least some of the lyrics.

Hate This, Screenager, Megalomania, Shine (Acoustic), Dead Star, New Born, Bliss, Darkshines, Endlessly, Fury, COD, Hoodoo, TAB, Map, Invincible, Glorious, just off the top of my head.
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Old 18-02-2018, 05:22 PM   #2046
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I really like Ruled By Secrecy.
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Old 18-02-2018, 05:37 PM   #2047
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No one is 'triggered' by the fact that he's rich and wealthy. No one is saying that the rich shouldn't have an opinion. We're merely responding to Matt's very own observation that if you turn off the news, things aren't so bad. Which is only an observation that people from a position of privilege can make.

Let me break it down.

Matt explains the lyrics to his song are a result of his thought process that the media are constantly broadcasting their viewpoints about Trump. And if you turn off the tv, it turns out things aren't so bad.

For many people living in America, this is not true. They can't close their eyes and realize that suddenly things aren't so bad, because they still can't afford to go to the doctor to get their cancer sorted out, or they're still facing deportation despite having lived in the US since they were a baby, or their kids are still dead after being shot in a school shooting, or they still see the social security they have paid for all their life taken away from them, leaving them unable to pay for basic needs at an old age, or they still see an increase in racist verbal and physical - occasionally lethal- attacks on people of a non-white background, etc, etc, etc.

If we say that Matt is out of touch it's not out of hatred for the rich and famous. He is, however, like many others who aren't rich and famous, privileged in a sense that he is not negatively affected by the horrors that Trump inflicts on the American people. Not just on the news, but in real life. Many can close their eyes to the news and feel better. But that doesn't change the reality that many don't have that option. These horrible stories are reality to them, they don't see it on the news, they see it in their lives. Their story needs to be told and heard, not silenced by urging people to just turn off the tv and pretend like the bad things don't exist.
As a Muse fan living in America, you could not have been more spot on with this post. While I enjoy the song, the message is a little lost on me because of the things you outlined above. Well done.
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Old 18-02-2018, 08:10 PM   #2048
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As a Muse fan living in America, you could not have been more spot on with this post. While I enjoy the song, the message is a little lost on me because of the things you outlined above. Well done.
Yeah, I'm pissed about Matt's explanation, even if I didn't get that that's what he was talking about in the lyrics. Either way, the lyrics still piss me off because of that casually thrown in Final Solution line.

In the Guardian webchat Matt puts his take on the news coverage slightly differently and, -perhaps more worryingly- it sounds like he's with Trump in essentially calling CNN and MSNBC "Fake News" by asserting that they don't provide evidence to back up their reporting and are influencing a group of people who 'don't want empirical evidence applied to their belief systems'. I'm sure he's not 100% wrong about that, but he would be 100% right if he had singled out Fox News, rather than journalistic outlets that are already under siege from the liars in charge of the country and are (empirically proven to be) more accurate in their reporting.

I mean, how can Matt, who runs with the nonsense conspiracy theorists toss at him all the time, now have a point to make about people not requiring empirical evidence in forming their opinions?

The one thing I'll agree with him on is that there's no need for 24/7 Trump coverage. To me more legitimate critique of CNN and MSNBC would be that they're commercial operations going for the ratings and therefore keep reporting on Trump as often as they can, because love him or hate him, he's ratings gold.

Anyway, below is Matt's quote from the webchat I'm referring to.

Quote:
Is Thought Contagion influenced by the 2016 US presidential election?

Probably influenced a bit by the endless news coverage in the US about that - when you watch CNN or MSNBC, all you see is Trump 24-7, it's like they're not interested in anything else. Was the song influenced by that? I mean, it's probably more influenced by Richard Dawkins' original idea of what he described as a meme, even though that word has changed meaning over time. How he originally meant is was to describe when somebody else's ideas or beliefs, regardless of validity or accuracy, can have a way of spreading around like genes do, growing in each other's minds and surviving. Certain ideas are very robust the way genes are robust. He was trying to find a way to describe how thoughts can be contagious and spread and have strength and grow in the way genes do through evolution. And unfortunately it's particularly true for the people who don't want empirical evidence applied to their belief systems - and they tend to be the most fervent. Sometimes those belief systems are the ones who spread the most.
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Old 18-02-2018, 08:43 PM   #2049
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This interview is also a good example, and I highlighted the most relevant quote... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKP2ljsH81U&t=2m57s
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Old 18-02-2018, 08:46 PM   #2050
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I don't think that's what Matt meant.

I turned off the news two years ago and ill tell you I am much happier. Not because I turn a blind eye but because I dont have people shouting at me 24 7 about how to think and feel about things. The news and social media tell us every day what to be outraged over and I'm sorry I cant live in a perpetual state of outrage anymore.

I live my life and vote my conscience and I don't feel anger and hatred for people over differences of opinion on POLICY. Its not worth it. If you took the time to unplug and engage face to face with your community I think in general you will find that people are still good, and you have more in common than you think.

I think he simply means to step away from the manipulation of the outrage industry and you'll find that your immigrant neighbor is a human being not a scary political figure, and your religious boss doesn't give a shit if you are gay and is perfectly happy sharing a drink after work if you want to.

There's a lot of people who think that's naive but I've come to start really distrusting people who want my emotional reactions all the time. The minute someone or something comes at me with an overly emotional argument my immediate response is to feel manipulated and become skeptical of what they are saying. Wait, who does my outrage really benefit? What is this person or cause gain at the expense of my emotional well being?

That goes in nicely to the thought contagion theory because it is very easy to manipulate public opinion by manipulating people's emotions. Trump does it when he refers to elitists and immigrants and refugees as usurping our culture, it makes people feel threatened and angry therefore they want something to be done. Make people feel a certain way you can instill opinions in them that they otherwise wouldn't have.

Anyway. The song certainly has a Drones era sound but I like it much better than Dig Down or that ridiculous Kinks cover. Can't wait to see it live.

Edit: And as usual the discussion has moved on before I get my response typed up and renders my post almost nonsensical. Whatever have a good day guys.
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Old 18-02-2018, 09:41 PM   #2051
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This interview is also a good example, and I highlighted the most relevant quote... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKP2ljsH81U&t=2m57s
Saying the news is feeding us false information because when you step outside you don’t personally see the bad things you saw on the news is about as stupid and/or manipulative as saying global warming can’t be real because it’s snowing outside your window.
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Old 18-02-2018, 09:52 PM   #2052
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I don't know. Media tells me everyday that I should fear my neighbor and that we've never been more divided and honestly when I step outside my social media commentary bubble and interact with people I find there's a lot to love and connect over.

I would not outright dismiss The idea that the 24 7 news cycle hasn't impacted the way we see the world.
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Old 18-02-2018, 09:54 PM   #2053
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I don't think that's what Matt meant.

I turned off the news two years ago and ill tell you I am much happier. Not because I turn a blind eye but because I dont have people shouting at me 24 7 about how to think and feel about things. The news and social media tell us every day what to be outraged over and I'm sorry I cant live in a perpetual state of outrage anymore.

I live my life and vote my conscience and I don't feel anger and hatred for people over differences of opinion on POLICY. Its not worth it. If you took the time to unplug and engage face to face with your community I think in general you will find that people are still good, and you have more in common than you think.

I think he simply means to step away from the manipulation of the outrage industry and you'll find that your immigrant neighbor is a human being not a scary political figure, and your religious boss doesn't give a shit if you are gay and is perfectly happy sharing a drink after work if you want to.

There's a lot of people who think that's naive but I've come to start really distrusting people who want my emotional reactions all the time. The minute someone or something comes at me with an overly emotional argument my immediate response is to feel manipulated and become skeptical of what they are saying. Wait, who does my outrage really benefit? What is this person or cause gain at the expense of my emotional well being?

That goes in nicely to the thought contagion theory because it is very easy to manipulate public opinion by manipulating people's emotions. Trump does it when he refers to elitists and immigrants and refugees as usurping our culture, it makes people feel threatened and angry therefore they want something to be done. Make people feel a certain way you can instill opinions in them that they otherwise wouldn't have.

Anyway. The song certainly has a Drones era sound but I like it much better than Dig Down or that ridiculous Kinks cover. Can't wait to see it live.

Edit: And as usual the discussion has moved on before I get my response typed up and renders my post almost nonsensical. Whatever have a good day guys.
Where can I sign all of what you wrote above? exactly my thoughts.

I remember watching a helicopter-hunt of a car on CNN many years ago, I just zappd there. I was glued to the telly for some minutes, cause it was LIVE and the presenter was so into it, it felt like I was the hunted! I had to turn it off to breathe again.... Felt the same with the Reapers-video, but I love the video, it suits the song so perfectly.(and it's fictional
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Old 18-02-2018, 09:57 PM   #2054
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Originally Posted by altbecky View Post
I don't think that's what Matt meant.

I turned off the news two years ago and ill tell you I am much happier. Not because I turn a blind eye but because I dont have people shouting at me 24 7 about how to think and feel about things. The news and social media tell us every day what to be outraged over and I'm sorry I cant live in a perpetual state of outrage anymore.

I live my life and vote my conscience and I don't feel anger and hatred for people over differences of opinion on POLICY. Its not worth it. If you took the time to unplug and engage face to face with your community I think in general you will find that people are still good, and you have more in common than you think.

I think he simply means to step away from the manipulation of the outrage industry and you'll find that your immigrant neighbor is a human being not a scary political figure, and your religious boss doesn't give a shit if you are gay and is perfectly happy sharing a drink after work if you want to.

There's a lot of people who think that's naive but I've come to start really distrusting people who want my emotional reactions all the time. The minute someone or something comes at me with an overly emotional argument my immediate response is to feel manipulated and become skeptical of what they are saying. Wait, who does my outrage really benefit? What is this person or cause gain at the expense of my emotional well being?

That goes in nicely to the thought contagion theory because it is very easy to manipulate public opinion by manipulating people's emotions. Trump does it when he refers to elitists and immigrants and refugees as usurping our culture, it makes people feel threatened and angry therefore they want something to be done. Make people feel a certain way you can instill opinions in them that they otherwise wouldn't have.

Anyway. The song certainly has a Drones era sound but I like it much better than Dig Down or that ridiculous Kinks cover. Can't wait to see it live.

Edit: And as usual the discussion has moved on before I get my response typed up and renders my post almost nonsensical. Whatever have a good day guys.
There are definitely people gaining from creating this sensationalist climate where everything is an argument, but at the same time we're living in a time where people who have been marginalized for a very long time finally have an opportunity to say no. Yes it's difficult living in an age where everything is worthy of an outrage, but honestly it's been a long time coming. "Small" things like microaggressions are finally being addressed, and that WILL lead to constant callouts until we change our behaviour.

Because the alternative is to stop making a big deal out of these things, and we will quickly fall back into objectification, ableism and whatnot without questioning it.

And saying that it's a "difference of opinion on policy" is a nicer way of describing it than actually explaining what those policies are. Are those policies about infringing on the rights of marginalized groups? Are they about defunding planned parenthood? And are the opinions of the person voting actually WORSE than what can be described by the policies they stand behind? Should I just say "well agree to disagree, I won't let political policies stand in the way of our friendship" to someone who thinks that homosexual people should receive conversion therapy?
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Old 18-02-2018, 10:07 PM   #2055
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I don't really see the social troubles of marginalized groups on the news much.
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