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Old 16-02-2018, 09:03 AM   #1981
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I'm interested that the 'bitten by' parts seem to be so popular. I think that part is what turned me off the most. It's so repetitive and such an annoying lyric.
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Old 16-02-2018, 09:03 AM   #1982
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I think it's pretty obvious that Matt isn't condoning extremism or anti semitism, but the reference feels tacky as fuck. If you're going to reference genocide and relate it to modern politics, a little nuance would go a long way.

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The 2nd and 3rd choruses happen in such rapid succession I only just clicked they were actually separate.
I just clicked to the same thing. Odd.
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Old 16-02-2018, 09:05 AM   #1983
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I did go with my anger after hearing it for the first time there. But I expect that is something a lot of people will feel.

It does strike me as catastrophically clumsy rather than maliciously ill intentioned. But if there's one issue you would not want to be clumsy over... Their lyrical ambiguity is the reason why they have attracted fans like Alex Jones and Glenn Beck. You would have thought they'd have wanted to stamp that out, not double down on it with a line like that.
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Old 16-02-2018, 09:05 AM   #1984
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I don’t think there was any intent to cause any harm. If the “Final Solution” line is intended to be a reference to the Holocaust, then I think that the “war crimes” line earlier on in the song clearly shows that he is repulsed by the events (as any human should be)
In fact, I personally see the lyrics as a sort of anti-nazi/anti-fascist/anti-radicalism in general, among other interpretations. It can be easily read as the struggle of a person against their worst own tendences against the others, and how much a radical or extremist view of the world (doesn't matter if political or religious) can distort reality and unleash the worst part of yourself by acting out.
The verse "Welcome to the infinite black skies", for example, particularly strikes me because black is a colour commonly associated with fascism, at least in my country. It's like it depicts an area, a place which doesn't have to be physical and could be in someone's mind, where their own inner "dark forces" make their "convertion" more easily possible.
Maybe I'm reading too much into it, who knows?

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I think it's pretty obvious that Matt isn't condoning extremism or anti semitism, but the reference feels tacky as fuck. If you're going to reference genocide and relate it to modern politics, a little nuance would go a long way.
Considering that he's clearly against all of that, using "nuance" would mean edulcorating the concept, thus I disagree.
Even with all of its flaws and incompleteness, I think TC is a blatanly anger-fueled, dramatic song, and should be treated as quite serious for its intentions.
Yeah, even in spite of its neon tinged video, which I feel invalidates it by being too goofy.
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Old 16-02-2018, 09:42 AM   #1985
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I'm interested that the 'bitten by' parts seem to be so popular. I think that part is what turned me off the most. It's so repetitive and such an annoying lyric.
Nevermind, the verses are the annoying part. The rest isn't as bad as it was on first listen. Still Drones level quality though, and the lyrics
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Old 16-02-2018, 09:46 AM   #1986
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Don’t care about any motive or carelessness on Matt’s part, that phrase just has too many connotations for a cheap pop song.
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Old 16-02-2018, 09:54 AM   #1987
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I certainly don’t love the song (and would rather never hear crowd-style vocals on a Muse studio track ever again), but think it might be the best post-BHAR single at capturing an essence of what I enjoy about the band. Of course, that possibly says more about my lukewarm relationship with their recent radio output than anything else Most of those I find okay in context, but wouldn’t make a favourites list and aren’t the sorts of thing I’d care to see again live, for example (early performances of Madness and Survival excepted, perhaps, for other reasons).

I’m quite happy they’re returning to their one-song-at-a-time approach for this album – a dynamic and colourful 10 song tracklist that avoids a huge drop-off in quality would be an appealing prospect. Not expecting a return to the glory days in terms of consistency of quality, but staying cautiously optimistic for now !
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Old 16-02-2018, 10:07 AM   #1988
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It does strike me as catastrophically clumsy rather than maliciously ill intentioned. But if there's one issue you would not want to be clumsy over... Their lyrical ambiguity is the reason why they have attracted fans like Alex Jones and Glenn Beck. You would have thought they'd have wanted to stamp that out, not double down on it with a line like that.
Sure. His intent is one thing, but the execution is... Well, a bit shite. As Martian says, the song reads as pretty blatantly anti fascist to me so I'm not too bothered by the line, but even so, it's a pretty boneheaded thing to sing about without adding much depth.

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Considering that he's clearly against all of that, using "nuance" would mean edulcorating the concept, thus I disagree.
Even with all of its flaws and incompleteness, I think TC is a blatanly anger-fueled, dramatic song, and should be treated as quite serious for its intentions.
Yeah, even in spite of its neon tinged video, which I feel invalidates it by being too goofy.
Maybe nuance isn't the word. I guess as I was saying earlier, it's the lack of depth that bothers me. He's making blatant references to fascism and the holocaust, but the lyrics are too simple to really add much depth or insight, so it's easy for things to be interpreted differently, which is a problem.

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Don’t care about any motive or carelessness on Matt’s part, that phrase just has too many connotations for a cheap pop song.
I agree for the most part. I think there should be room in pop to discuss weighty themes and politics, but this wasn't handled brilliantly imo, and if he wants to make an artistic statement on rising fascism and misinformation, there are probably better ways to do that.
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Old 16-02-2018, 11:20 AM   #1989
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Originally Posted by bumpypotato View Post
I think it's pretty obvious that Matt isn't condoning extremism or anti semitism, but the reference feels tacky as fuck. If you're going to reference genocide and relate it to modern politics, a little nuance would go a long way.
Sadly it is related to modern politics, the nazi movement is very much alive and well within the USA. It is absolutely incredible how much room for misinterpretation Matt allows, but to me the song is clearly about the current state of American politics.
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Old 16-02-2018, 11:25 AM   #1990
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Sadly it is related to modern politics, the nazi movement is very much alive and well within the USA. It is absolutely incredible how much room for misinterpretation Matt allows, but to me the song is clearly about the current state of American politics.
Just American politics and society, though? The message of the song can also easily refer to many other countries in the world (and Italy, where I come from, is certainly one of those).
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Old 16-02-2018, 12:06 PM   #1991
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Well at least your presidents aren't war criminals from the 90s, suddenly changed to big european liberals
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Old 16-02-2018, 12:24 PM   #1992
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The Final Solution line sticks out a fucking mile because it's the only concrete line in the song that refers to a specific thing. Other than that line the song is so vague that it's essentially about nothing. I can't believe no-one has sat Matt down and explained to him that the abstract is best expressed through the concrete. That's poetry/lyrics 101.
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Old 16-02-2018, 12:26 PM   #1993
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I did go with my anger after hearing it for the first time there. But I expect that is something a lot of people will feel.

It does strike me as catastrophically clumsy rather than maliciously ill intentioned. But if there's one issue you would not want to be clumsy over... Their lyrical ambiguity is the reason why they have attracted fans like Alex Jones and Glenn Beck. You would have thought they'd have wanted to stamp that out, not double down on it with a line like that.
That's really the issue, whatever Matt's intent or knowledge of the situation was.
Matt's gotten in bed with the alt-right before it was mainstream, and he hasn't exactly done much to distance himself from it.
The Globalist was likely just Matt's having read Rushdie, but nationalism has taken a dark turn in the world right now, and "globalist" is up there in the alt-right lexicon with "cuck" and "snowflake." With a very racist and anti-Semitic meaning most of the time.

Can I reasonably believe Matt's made the same mistake twice, or am I projecting what I want to believe onto the situation? The song is too damn vague.

And the irony of "fake news" has always been that the right propagated most of it (or Russian propaganda, if you want) but is the same team crying out that mainstream news is "fake" so the "false beliefs" line in the song easily fits with the interpretation of being sung from EITHER side, but the "fake news" phrase has mainly been adopted by the far right.

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Old 16-02-2018, 12:57 PM   #1994
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The line is unbelievably clumsy and out of place. That it made it into the final song is even crazier. It's way too careless and blunt for such a sensitive topic. That being said I honestly don't see room for malicious interpretation and it seems clear to me that it's a terrible attempt at denouncing fascism.

I'm not aware of any acquaintanceship between Matt and the alt-right. I know right-wing politicians have used Muse songs but that the band usually turned down their requests. Can someone direct me to stuff showing Matt getting "in bed with the alt-right"? I googled it but couldn't find anything.

Edit: Unless by alt-right you mean conspiracy theories?

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Old 16-02-2018, 01:11 PM   #1995
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The line is unbelievably clumsy and out of place. That it made it into the final song is even crazier. It's way too careless and blunt for such a sensitive topic. That being said I honestly don't see room for malicious interpretation and it seems clear to me that it's a terrible attempt at denouncing fascism.

I'm not aware of any acquaintanceship between Matt and the alt-right. I know right-wing politicians have used Muse songs but that the band usually turned down their requests. Can someone direct me to stuff showing Matt getting "in bed with the alt-right"? I googled it but couldn't find anything.
http://www.nme.com/news/music/muse-394-1358164

Matt's conspiracy-era stuff got him pretty close to Alex Jones. It's a reputation that has never really gone away.
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