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Old 02-02-2013, 02:47 PM   #46
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I'll see what I can find out. I imagine it would be easier to deal with from the ceiling below but I guess you could lay 100mm insulation across the entire floor area and lay a new floor on top. The problem is all the door ways etc would need raising 120mm.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:18 PM   #47
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It's actualy quite simple to make a floating floor to create a room in a room, just lay joists with rubber on top, and lay your floor over that. All you need to do is ensure that the floor is not attached to the joists.
I think you should add mass to your flooring before doing anything else. Adding mass is easy, just build your floors up and fill it with sand. Lots of mass with inherent damping. In a 10mx10m room, you'll might find that gets expensive, but it really is the best option. Nothing beats mass when trying to kill sound.
Once you've done that, float a nice wooden floor over it and you should be golden.

I will say again though, you'd be better off starting with a good building and improving that than starting with problems inherent in the structure. Also, consider the effect of noise leakage outside the studio.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:19 PM   #48
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I'll see what I can find out. I imagine it would be easier to deal with from the ceiling below but I guess you could lay 100mm insulation across the entire floor area and lay a new floor on top. The problem is all the door ways etc would need raising 120mm.
You could, it would make your room warmer!

It will still be noisy though.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:42 PM   #49
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You can get acoustic insulation as well as thermal... I imagine the standard xtratherm styrene type stuff isn't going to offer much sound insulation but there much be something similar that is. I know we've used a quilt insulation in the past split into layers with a couple of rubber membranes dividing the layers to dampen any sound. I know these kinds of materials start to get pricey though.
Maybe something like this
http://www.knaufinsulation.co.uk/en-...oor-slabs.aspx
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:34 PM   #50
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You can get acoustic insulation as well as thermal... I imagine the standard xtratherm styrene type stuff isn't going to offer much sound insulation but there much be something similar that is. I know we've used a quilt insulation in the past split into layers with a couple of rubber membranes dividing the layers to dampen any sound. I know these kinds of materials start to get pricey though.
Maybe something like this
http://www.knaufinsulation.co.uk/en-...oor-slabs.aspx
I know, I'm doing a masters in acoustics
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:49 PM   #51
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then why say insulting the floor would only make the room warmer??
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:28 PM   #52
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then why say insulting the floor would only make the room warmer??
Probably because I know what I'm talking about maybe? You're talking about insulating the floor, not isolation.

I was making a point that 100mm insulation (which is normally a roll of fibreglass) is mostly just good for thermal insulation. It has very low mass per m2, so it is not really suitable for the purposes outlined previously. Quilt between layers of rubber is there to provide damping, it won't give you a noticeable reduction in SPL compared to rubber alone.
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:35 PM   #53
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i was talking about 100mm rockwool slab actually, which is really compacted and dense. I've done a fair bit of sound treatment on clubs in the past as well as the studio stuff at the college so i've got first hand experience with a lot of the lower end materials rather than what a pro studio would typically use.
Obviously a bit of loft roll isn't going to sound proof anything...
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:27 AM   #54
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Thanks for the advice

I do know of some of these specialist acoustic treatment materials. I guess I need to look for a better building. From some reading around it looks like I'm after background noise of less than 30dB, which is miles off at the moment
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:48 PM   #55
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Tom, don't go looking at expensive specialist materials. Get the best building you can and make it better.
I know that there are a lot of specialist materials out there that will claim to give you xx amound of dB reduction, but you need to weigh up their benefits against the cost of using standard materials.
For example, you can find heavyweight plasterboard replacements that are claimed to give greater isolation, however these are usually 3-4 times the cost of plasterboard sheets. So just double up your 12.5mm plasterboard, maybe stick a damper between them and you'll be sorted for 1/2 the price.
Like I said though, if you find the right building first, you'll spend a lot less money getting the rooms right.
The materials Phil mentioned are very effective, I misunderstood what he was referring to because I was on my Iphone and didn't follow his link. If I was condescending, I apologise I was just making a little joke. Regardless, the problem with rigid fiberglass boards is two-fold really.
Firstly, they suck at low frequency isolation. Anything that's going to generate rumble at 250Hz and below (trucks, trains etc) is going to penetrate right through. This usually isn't that big a deal, most of the time you're high-pass filtering your mic's anyway, but it's something to be aware of.
The major problem with rigid fiberglass, is that it's easy to leave gaps, which massively reduces transmission loss. I'm doing some work simulating gaps in sealed enclosures, small gaps let a lot more sound through than you would think. If you're actually interested, i'll look out my notes and give you some figures
Fwiw, Rockwool produce semi-rigid mineral wool to sidestep this issue.
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:59 PM   #56
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Well I definitely need to do it on the cheap

Any notes and/or more advice would be most appreciated. My email is my username @hotmail.com

I've just been to see an old chinese restaurant. It's right in the middle of town, quite close to a ring road and very close to a big Tesco, but inside it's seriously quiet. I mean the meter isn't picking up anything on the 60db setting and I can only hear the strip lights, nothing else. It looks promising but would take a fuck load of work to make it nice.

In that sort of scenario I'd have to treat a control room, which I know you can do pretty cheaply, but also create isolation in the door ways. If you just double up fire doors is that effective? Or do you have to go for the flashy studio jobbies?
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:34 PM   #57
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reading this makes me realise how working in a studio in the middle of fucking nowhere is taken for granted! I did a report for my acoustics and sound reinforcement module at university - the books I researched were very helpful I will try dig out the name of them for you
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:32 PM   #58
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Well I definitely need to do it on the cheap

Any notes and/or more advice would be most appreciated. My email is my username @hotmail.com

I've just been to see an old chinese restaurant. It's right in the middle of town, quite close to a ring road and very close to a big Tesco, but inside it's seriously quiet. I mean the meter isn't picking up anything on the 60db setting and I can only hear the strip lights, nothing else. It looks promising but would take a fuck load of work to make it nice.

In that sort of scenario I'd have to treat a control room, which I know you can do pretty cheaply, but also create isolation in the door ways. If you just double up fire doors is that effective? Or do you have to go for the flashy studio jobbies?
Treating the control room would be more important than the studio itself.

If you get another chance for a look at this place, take a mic and set it up to see if theres any low end resonance from outside as its not something you may hear or pick up on a decibel meter, but will pass through mic stands and so on.
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Old 06-02-2013, 10:40 AM   #59
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I did do a pretty in depth acoustics module at uni, but it was mainly concerned with room treatment, as opposed to sound proofing/isolation (if you get my distinction)

I'm fairly confident with treating my control/mixing room

Keeping background noise out of my recordings is really the main concern for me at the moment. A studio in the middle of nowhere would be ideal, but even then you have problems with weather noise, depending on the construction of the place

Anyhoo, I'll keep looking
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:26 AM   #60
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OK dewds, I finally have the keys!! This is the layout

There's almost no noise from outside at all. Nothing showing on my meter. There is a chav with a scooter nearby that would come through on quiet vocals very, very occasionally. I think the main leak into the live room are the three windows shown at the top of the picture. I am planning to stuff these full of acoustic rockwool and cover that with some fabric or maybe plasterboard. Any thoughts on that?

Then, the control room and something room are not well separated from the live room. There are small air gaps at the top of the dividing walls and around the doors. Any suggestions on that?

I'm thinking that for now, while tracking I can have the monitors turned quite low, or just use headphones in the control room. I've seen other studios doing this but do you guys think it'd be unprofessional?

I've ordered one of these acoustic treatment kits with some diffusers and bass traps for the live room, as getting that to sound great is my absolute priority.

any other thoughts?

Last edited by cheddatom; 05-06-2013 at 11:30 AM.
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