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Old 10-02-2018, 11:14 AM   #16
Static Shadows
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Originally Posted by Jobby View Post
Gotta disagree with those tbh

Fury and Map are ultra simple, both heavily reliant on effects to flesh ‘em out. I’d say the same for Dead Star and New Born as well tbh - the solos require tapping/trem picking technique but it’s pretty simple and short stuff. Then PIB’s just scale-work and a couple of chords really.
Oddly, I strongly disagreed with almost all of your selections too! Most of them would do nothing for me if I heard them cold as examples of exciting guitar work. Very different tastes there.

I included both Fury and MotP precisely because of their use of effects to create a really unique sound. As a guitarist myself, that's what I find exciting and interesting. My Bloody Valentine interest me more than Steve Vai! And I wasn't really considering the solos - certainly not as a stand alone thing. Maybe it's because I spent my teens shredding in a power metal band but solos now rarely impress or interest me unless they add to the feel/emotion and progression of a song, or do something really sonically unusual. So for example, I hate the solo in Invincible but love the solos in Sunburn or Citizen Erased. And a riff that thrills me is better again.
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Old 10-02-2018, 08:17 PM   #17
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I much prefer MBV to Steve Vai but Vai has more mastery over the guitar if that's the only metric (instruments were asked in the OP). Him and other "shredders" (ex. Buckethead) can do some weird and creative sounds too while also having the strong technical skill that does take effort to even replicate.

Anyways I find bass and vocals to be the only ones that really excel in musicianship minus few examples of the other. The members are all way more skilled than what they put on album. That's not a problem in the slightest but it does make it harder to show skill through those songs.

Also, Osaka Jam.
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Old 10-02-2018, 08:52 PM   #18
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Vibrato? Matt used that in every single song and it has always come naturally to him. Do you mean vocal runs? Like in “”Show me how it’s dOoOnee”?
No the “wicked and divine” and the other line in the same verse.
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Old 10-02-2018, 09:31 PM   #19
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No the “wicked and divine” and the other line in the same verse.
Oh yeah that's vibrato but it's like...really ordinary. I mean it's nothing special for Matt or in fact any singer who can do vibrato.
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Old 10-02-2018, 10:11 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Kueller917 View Post
I much prefer MBV to Steve Vai but Vai has more mastery over the guitar if that's the only metric (instruments were asked in the OP). Him and other "shredders" (ex. Buckethead) can do some weird and creative sounds too while also having the strong technical skill that does take effort to even replicate.
^^ It’s not so much what you like/prefer, but what’s the best showing of their ability.

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The members are all way more skilled than what they put on album.
I originally thought that but I’m not so sure now. Matt’s guitar work is 100% more technical than what he records, pretty sure he’s admitted that he does that intentionally to account for the fact that he’s often singing at the same time live.

That might be just about it though imo. I don’t get the impression his piano ability stretches much (if any) further than what we’ve seen tbh. Chris might be able to do some crazy shit if you pushed him but, then again, when he’s given total control over what he’s playing he tends to stick to that similar Liquid State/D&B jam sound and level. Think Dom’s playing at pretty much full pelt on Assassin as well, and maybe at the end of Knights at live shows.
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Old 10-02-2018, 10:42 PM   #21
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There's one really old interview that has Matt on an acoustic and he does some nice things I've never seen him do anywhere else.

His piano work is probably closest on record but something like Butterflies is just crossover arpeggios. That footage he has when he was 12 isn't very far from the difficulty of a lot of Muse songs and I doubt he never improved far beyond that in a decade.

Kinda same with Dom. The live jams or making-of noodling tends to have more demanding parts and more complex rhythms than what we normally see, especially in the past two albums.

I did say there were some exceptions where they do show off but they were very few.
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Old 10-02-2018, 10:46 PM   #22
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I think we can see some limits of Matt's abilities in songs like MK Ultra and The Handler, where the odd timing when combined with singing has meant that he either omitted the guitar part (MK Ultra) or intentionally cut off the mic feed so he could practice in a live setting before getting it right (The Handler). I honestly hope that he keeps practicing that, because that would really add an element to their music for me. Or just start using Morgan properly instead of just for show (which it feels like sometimes). Give the man a guitar!

Also despite how technically wanky it might sound, I really wish Muse would experiment with more technical stuff in terms of rhythm and time. I know they dabble with more time signature stuff than you might think, but that's not the point. I want something that SOUNDS weird. Like, back in 2006 they joked about almost becoming an experimental jazz band and I'm just like...yes. Give me Muse's take on that!

Something like this would suit Muse imo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzjt99EdaMU (which I now realise is a bit like what Muse did with Popcorn. So yeah do that...but with something other than Popcorn.

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There's one really old interview that has Matt on an acoustic and he does some nice things I've never seen him do anywhere else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdSc5xc7Rg4 I think you're thinking of this.
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Old 10-02-2018, 11:12 PM   #23
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I’ve been gagging for them to get mathy/post-rock for yeeeears now. Given up hope though. Would’ve been the dream evolution from Black Holes for me.
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Old 11-02-2018, 12:11 AM   #24
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MK Ultra is not that hard to sing and play and I wish he would have done it since the dual guitar/bass would have made that part a lot beefier especially with Resistance era tone.
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Old 11-02-2018, 12:25 AM   #25
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Ngl that “breaking through” section does weirdly muddle your brain. It’s so simple but I struggle to do both unless I keep tempo by hitting muted strings between the notes (which sounds sloppy tbh).

Matt’s a bit better than me though, so

Edit: The Groove’s a weird one in that sense imo. I have next to zero difficulty singing and playing the riff at the same time but Matt always seemed to struggle with the timing, resorting to just playing chords for the verses in the modern performances. Omitting the last chorus when he’s soloing is forgivable though.
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Old 11-02-2018, 12:52 AM   #26
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Old 11-02-2018, 01:02 AM   #27
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Maybe should’ve given Assassin a shout for guitar as well actually. Hardly insane but the chorus has some awkward stretches/movement and getting the picking + hammer-on timings during the riffs right and clean is easy to underestimate.

Knights’ tremolo picking section on the high E before the vocals come in is a bitch to keep 100% clean as well. Matt’s trem picking is pretty fucking decent tbf to him, swear he never hits a bum note or clashes with another string.
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Old 11-02-2018, 01:51 AM   #28
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Ngl that “breaking through” section does weirdly muddle your brain. It’s so simple but I struggle to do both unless I keep tempo by hitting muted strings between the notes (which sounds sloppy tbh).
I kinda figured that out back in high school without much experience and Matt is and was way better than me at the singing/playing thing. I'd offer to play it for him next time but we know there will be no next time for MK Ultra.
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Old 15-02-2018, 12:27 PM   #29
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Gotta say no matter how many people hate it, Madness is a massive demonstration of Matt's vocal ability. To be able to hold such a high note, without faltering for around 5 seconds twice is insane, and yes he does sing a whole or half a step down, or do falsetto on the second LOOOOVE when they're playing live, but remember that's after singing a ton of other pretty difficult songs to any ordinary singer.
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Old 15-02-2018, 12:37 PM   #30
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Gotta say no matter how many people hate it, Madness is a massive demonstration of Matt's vocal ability. To be able to hold such a high note, without faltering for around 5 seconds twice is insane, and yes he does sing a whole or half a step down, or do falsetto on the second LOOOOVE when they're playing live, but remember that's after singing a ton of other pretty difficult songs to any ordinary singer.
While I agree that Madness is a great demonstration of Matt's vocal ability (along with most of T2L in general), I'm pretty doubtful that Matt could ever sing the whole thing properly in the original key. Even the earliest performances where they ONLY played that song (Skalvan in Stockholm for example) they did it in a lower key, and Matt was REALLY pushing himself for that ending.
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