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Old 01-01-2017, 01:17 PM   #7696
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This is a last page topic but an album that is experimental only in reference to the band and not in a wider musical context can still be considered an experimental album.
Any album could be considered experimental if only considered within the context of those musicians.

However reinvention is probably more appropriate than experimental in this particular context.
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Old 01-01-2017, 02:49 PM   #7697
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I'm willing to accept the idea that T2L is experimental in the context of Muse (though they have done stuff before that was more interestingly experimental), it's just that it's mostly bad experimenting.
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Old 01-01-2017, 07:51 PM   #7698
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it's just that it's mostly bad experimenting.
Maybe it's experimenting that you don't personally like, but that doesn't make it objectively bad.
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Old 01-01-2017, 07:59 PM   #7699
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Also, Matt needs to bring back the doubleneck and the keytar on Resistance and Undisclosed Desires, respectively. (Especially the doubleneck.)
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:07 PM   #7700
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T2L is the professionally-made, full album equivalent of when I made an abominable instrumental funk track for a laugh when I was like 15. It's not experimenting, it's messing about.

(imo)

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Also, Matt needs to bring back the doubleneck and the keytar on Resistance and Undisclosed Desires, respectively. (Especially the doubleneck.)
That would involve keeping UD around, which gets a no from me (and fortunately seems to finally be getting edged out by the band as well).

Obvs I'd rather Resistance was bunked off as well but it's super popular with other people so I'm relatively fine with that and thankful it's not an out-and-out staple as it is. Also, I probably prefer it without the double-neck 'cause that came in tandem with an extra 1/2-minute intro iirc and I'd rather just get the song over with.
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:30 PM   #7701
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Maybe it's experimenting that you don't personally like, but that doesn't make it objectively bad.
Yes it can be objectively bad.

If the experiment has a purpose and fails to achieve that, then it is objectively bad, even if people subjectively enjoy it, which is rarely the aim with experimental music.

Muse's attempts at reinvention/re-defining don't appear to be successful, as nobody really knows who they are any more (Met enough young people who are surprised when they hear Showbiz/OOS!). T2L doesn't do anything different that Muse hadn't done before, just used a different set of genres, its the same formula they've used for 2/3 albums prior. No idea how its experimental.
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:31 PM   #7702
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That would involve keeping UD around, which gets a no from me (and fortunately seems to finally be getting edged out by the band as well).
Maybe I should have reworded it to say "on the few times they play UD, they should use the keytar." It certainly beats Matt strutting around the stage like he's Bono.

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Obvs I'd rather Resistance was bunked off as well but it's super popular with other people so I'm relatively fine with that and thankful it's not an out-and-out staple as it is. Also, I probably prefer it without the double-neck 'cause that came in tandem with an extra 1/2-minute intro iirc and I'd rather just get the song over with.
Now that I think of it, they still play the Resistance intro, don't they? Only it's now the intro to The Globalist.
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:34 PM   #7703
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Yes it can be objectively bad.

If the experiment has a purpose and fails to achieve that, then it is objectively bad, even if people subjectively enjoy it, which is rarely the aim with experimental music.
Soooo... what am I supposed to get out of this, then? The album is bad and my opinion that it's good is objectively wrong just because you guys don't personally enjoy it like I do? Is that what I'm supposed to take from this?
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:43 PM   #7704
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Soooo... what am I supposed to get out of this, then? The album is bad and my opinion that it's good is objectively wrong just because you guys don't personally enjoy it like I do? Is that what I'm supposed to take from this?
What you're supposed to get out of this is not to say things that are objectively wrong to reinforce your subjective opinion.
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:57 PM   #7705
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What you're supposed to get out of this is not to say things that are objectively wrong to reinforce your subjective opinion.
There's nothing objectively wrong about saying "I think Drones is a good album" and praising it for thing you think it did well.
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Old 01-01-2017, 09:02 PM   #7706
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There's nothing objectively wrong about saying "I think Drones is a good album" and praising it for thing you think it did well.
Calling it 'wildly experimental' is objectively wrong.

Nothing wrong with your subjective opinion, enjoy enjoying it!

But its not experimental, or even a transitional album, its not reinvention either.

The definition on wikipedia: "Experimental music is a compositional practice defined broadly by exploratory sensibilites and movement radically opposed to and questioning of institutionalized musical compositional, performing, and aesthetic conventions"
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Old 01-01-2017, 09:06 PM   #7707
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Calling it 'wildly experimental' is objectively wrong.

Nothing wrong with your subjective opinion, enjoy enjoying it!

But its not experimental, or even a transitional album, its not reinvention either.
Okay, fine, whatever. So it's dabbling in different genres. Happy now?
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Old 01-01-2017, 09:18 PM   #7708
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Okay, fine, whatever. So it's dabbling in different genres. Happy now?
Yeah and the criticism by others is that it dabbles too much and lacks cohesion as a whole, despite enjoying songs separately. Which is entirely subjective of course.
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Old 01-01-2017, 09:43 PM   #7709
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Yeah and the criticism by others is that it dabbles too much and lacks cohesion as a whole, despite enjoying songs separately. Which is entirely subjective of course.
Great. Glad we could come to that conclusion.

And sorry if I came off as angry earlier. I'm really stressed out and in pain right now.
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Old 01-01-2017, 09:54 PM   #7710
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C'mon, Muse are bad but not enough to cause pain.
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