Muse've been assumed by Dream Theater in a song!

[Orny92]

hello...listen the very start synth of Prophets of War(Dream Theater)...it's reaaaaaaally similar to the Take a Bow one!!!tell me if I'm right

[Sophie.]

Granted, Systematic Chaos was released after BH&R, and yes, Prophets of War is a little 'Musey' overall. But I'd hardly say it was anything like Take A Bow.

[Orny92]

Granted, Systematic Chaos was released after BH&R, and yes, Prophets of War is a little 'Musey' overall. But I'd hardly say it was anything like Take A Bow.

I was talkin about the beginning synth:)

[Morinphen]

Mike Portnoy once namechecked "Absolution" as one of his favourite albums."Octavarium" has also some nods to Muse,especially in "Panic Attack" and "Never Enough".And,if I´m not wrong,Dream Theather have played "Stockholm Syndrome" in one of their usual medleys.
And,yes,the beginning of "Prophets Of War" sounds like Take A Bow to me too.In fact,I tend to hear "Corrupt!" in one of the falsetto wailings after the synth part.

[Sophie.]

I was talkin about the beginning synth:)

So was I. What I meant is that not every argpeggiated synth part in the world immediately points to Muse as an influence.

[Nimpo46]

So was I. What I meant is that not every argpeggiated synth part in the world immediately points to Muse as an influence.

Yeah but it's more than normally similar.

[Orny92]

yes,and I'm not the one to think it...reading a lot of rewiews of Systematic Chaos you can always find the comparison...

[Nimpo46]

dt covered stockholm syndrome live, and it's a well known fact that they're heavily influenced by muse, but i don't think Sophi is disagreeing with that.

[ColAH02]

dt covered stockholm syndrome live, and it's a well known fact that they're heavily influenced by muse, but i don't think Sophi is disagreeing with that.

Heavily influenced? Dream theatre have been around for a lot longer than Muse, so no.

[fairy lights]

only the song never enough (lovechild of hysteria/stockholm syndrome) & certain parts of panic attack & prophets of war is influenced by muse. they are songs from their last 2 albums.

[Orny92]

only the song never enough (lovechild of hysteria/stockholm syndrome) & certain parts of panic attack & prophets of war is influenced by muse. they are songs from their last 2 albums.

that's what I said...maybe people misunderstood me thinkin that I said that DT copy Muse...the meaning of my thread wasn't this...it was referred just to Prophets of War,which I like very much though...

[Nimpo46]

Heavily influenced? Dream theatre have been around for a lot longer than Muse, so no.

Well they have been heavy influenced by muse yes. Muse have been influenced by lots of groups, especially for BHaR that doesn't mean muse haven't been around longer.

Dream Theater themselves have said they've been influenced by muse.

[pubicmage]

Heavily influenced? Dream theatre have been around for a lot longer than Muse, so no.

That's a really stupid thing to say. People can be influenced by their contemporaries regardless of how long each of the bands has been active for. Musical tastes change over time, so influences also have to change. Except for rubbish bands who make all of their albums in the same style.

David Bowie has been around for longer than Nine Inch Nails, but they were very influential on his "Outside" album in 1995, and he even went on tour with them to help give them some publicity.

[m0hawk]

Prophets of War sounds a lot more like Butterflies & Hurricanes. The chord progression in the verse sounds quite similar, to me at least. The way the bass comes in in the verse is practically the same. And the whole "Is it time to make a change?" line in the chorus!

[Clunge]

DT have said many times that around the time Octavarium was being written and recorded, they were heavily influenced by Muse which you can hear in tracks like Never Enough. I guess DT are just big Muse fans and some of that has rubbed off on their music, like Prophets Of War. I doubt it's a homage as such to Muse, or anything, just influence.

[Hopix]

DT have said many times that around the time Octavarium was being written and recorded, they were heavily influenced by Muse which you can hear in tracks like Never Enough. I guess DT are just big Muse fans and some of that has rubbed off on their music, like Prophets Of War. I doubt it's a homage as such to Muse, or anything, just influence.

:awesome:

It's cool to think that such an epic prog metal band are big fans of Muse.

[ryancoke93]

:awesome:

It's cool to think that such an epic prog metal band are big fans of Muse.

Everyone's a fan of Muse :P Expect the guy who started this thread apparently ;)

[lily93]

Granted, Systematic Chaos was released after BH&R, and yes, Prophets of War is a little 'Musey' overall. But I'd hardly say it was anything like Take A Bow.

The Knights Of Cydonia ending riff is a COMPLETE RIP on a Dream Theater riff, and I wouldn't call it 'sounding like it' more like, 'completely plagiarises'

.....can't remember which song though, youtube vid might still be there.

[Obi]

:awesome:

It's cool to think that such an epic prog metal band are big fans of Muse.

I much prefer Muse to Dream Theater tbh.

[Victoroy]

I don't see how this is a bad thing like some of you portray it...both bands are amazing at what they do and are distinguishable in the music business.

[Veronica_cy]

The Knights Of Cydonia ending riff is a COMPLETE RIP on a Dream Theater riff, and I wouldn't call it 'sounding like it' more like, 'completely plagiarises'

.....can't remember which song though, youtube vid might still be there.

In The Name of God?? (around 3 min)

http://www.youtube.com/v/aaGzdOg6EIY


You're right, but it's only a few seconds. Big deal. It's not the first time and it definitely isn't the last.

[laura_c]

Hmmm, this resurrected thread has reminded me of my 2nd year research project (not particularly happy memories if I'm honest!) It was partly about postmodern/pastiche aspects of Octavarium, so here's the Muse section for anyone who's interested in a vaguely proper analysis...

The song ‘Never Enough’ can be interpreted as a pastiche of the style of British rock band Muse. It is clear that Dream Theater are not only aware of the band’s work, but appreciate their work sufficiently that in a live performance they have quoted the riff from their song ‘Stockholm Syndrome’ during an extended instrumental solo [YouTube 2006b]; Dream Theater’s appreciation of Muse clearly reaches the extent of giving flattery through pastiche. ‘Never Enough’ references a combination of the songs ‘Hysteria’, ‘Stockholm Syndrome’ and ‘Sing For Absolution’, all singles from the album Absolution, which was released in 2003, less than two years before Octavarium, making it one of the most contemporary influences on the album.

The introduction, although played by Rudess on a synth, has a very similar timbre to Chris Wolstenholme’s bass riff in the introduction of ‘Hysteria’. Despite the faster tempo and different key of ‘Never Enough’, it is clear that both riffs consist of semiquaver patterns that consistently return to a ‘home’ note: ‘Never Enough’s introduction consists of a repeated two bar phrase in which the hook is centred around the song’s root note D, and in ‘Hysteria’, although the implied chord changes every bar after from the third bar onwards, it is again based on a pattern of notes leaping away from and returning to the root note. Indeed, the first four notes of each piece include a leap to a seventh away from the root note (Rudess leaping down a seventh to the original note and Wolstenholme up and back down).

When the drums enter at bar eight of ‘Never Enough’, the fill Portnoy plays references the fill in bar four of ‘Stockholm Syndrome’. Although Portnoy’s fill is more complex than Muse drummer Dominic Howard’s, and largely tom-based whereas Howard’s is based on just snare and kick drum, their respective positions in the bar and the use of three distinct accents on the snare seem more than coincidental. When the guitars and bass play in parallel with the synth riff in ‘Never Enough’, Portnoy’s rhythm, based on offbeat snare and ride cymbal, shows that the pastiche has reverted back to ‘Hysteria’, where a very similar beat is heard before the vocals enter.

The distinctive treatment of the vocals in ‘Never Enough’ is perhaps the clearest reference to Muse in the song. The bass frequencies are cut to give a distorted sound, as though the singer were using a megaphone. Indeed, in earlier in Muse’s career, vocalist Matt Bellamy has employed this technique, as well using a microphone ran through vocal distortion units to give the same effect, and this sound is evident throughout the vocals of ‘Hysteria’. A particular idiosyncrasy of Bellamy’s vocals is the attention deliberately drawn to his often laboured-sounding breaths between lines. In ‘Never Enough’, LaBrie seems to consciously employ this technique, particularly in the verses, in a reference to Bellamy’s distinctive vocal style; it is not a feature of his vocals in other Dream Theater songs, and appears to go against his usual trained vocal style.

The pre-chorus of ‘Never Enough’ includes an arpeggiated synth pattern, which alters the timbre and increases the sense of space in the song. This is a direct reference to the chorus of ‘Stockholm Syndrome’, in which a synth sound plays wide-sweeping arpeggios in a very similar fashion, giving the same effect.

The guitar solo of ‘Never Enough’ consists of three distinct sections: between 3’45 and 4’15, there is a straight semiquaver guitar pattern which has a remarkably similar melodic contour to the first half of the guitar solo of ‘Hysteria’, and seems to be a direct pastiche as it is based on far less virtuosic soloing techniques than the majority of Petrucci’s work. The middle section of the ‘Never Enough’ solo appears to be an example of pure Dream Theater technique, with a highly virtuosic duet between synth and lead guitar. It could be seen as a necessary ‘stamp of identity’ on the song, possibly to avoid accusations of plagiarism as a result of the strong similarities to Muse’s work found in the rest of the song. At 4’45 in ‘Never Enough’, there is another clear Muse reference as the tone of the lead guitar references the guitar solo of ‘Sing For Absolution’. The use of delay, wah and very high levels of digital distortion is present in both songs. Although the solo of ‘Sing For Absolution’ is based on block chords and the ‘Never Enough’ solo on arpeggios, the amount of delay used in Petrucci’s solo means that the notes are sustained to build up into a chord. However, in ‘Never Enough’, these effects are gradually reduced to lead back to a clean, typical Petrucci tone on the climactic last note of the solo.

Here's the youtube video with SS riff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH9V5ea9jNY

Oh and it must be true cos I got a first :LOL: [/geek].

[llamafish164]

:cool:

[Victoroy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWVCNEij860

At around 10:20 you can also see them covering Stockholm Syndrome :)

[Hopix]

I much prefer Muse to Dream Theater tbh.

Yeah so do I. :cool:

[JoshXR]

In The Name of God?? (around 3 min)

http://www.youtube.com/v/aaGzdOg6EIY


You're right, but it's only a few seconds. Big deal. It's not the first time and it definitely isn't the last.

Seriously? The riffs aren't THAT similar...they both have a galloping style to them, but that's about it.

Iron Maiden has made a career of galloping rhythms, and so have many other metal bands. Not a big deal.

[Davinq]

Seriously? The riffs aren't THAT similar...they both have a galloping style to them, but that's about it.

Iron Maiden has made a career of galloping rhythms, and so have many other metal bands. Not a big deal.

My friend hates Knights of Cydonia on the basis that it 'just rips off' Barracuda by Heart. :rolleyes: